Ramadan Mubarak!
Too many things have been going on in my life, but it has been utterly devoid of blogging or as I call it "hunting big game Islamophobes". Assignments, assignments and assignments. But here's a song of Ramadan, to accumulate some of this year's frustration and success on to a cloud, to sprinkle the earth. I am not making any sense. I know. Don't ask. Ramadan mubarak! The long overdue articles like 'The Black Armband of History' will insha'Allah be up soon. Do keep checking. Sinister laughter.
50 comments:
Ramadan mubarak to you and your family!
Ramadan Mubarak, and thanks for the moon song - Yusuf Islam got better with age :)
Islamophobia has a very strange, but nice side-effect, it spreads Islam and might even be the main reason Islam is spreading so fast these days. I have a post about it on my blog qame.blogspot.com
and would be honored if you care to share your thoughts on it.
Islamophobia has been my favorite search word this month and like most Muslims I do not like it but do like the side effect, it is just a half backed idea and I am not sure of it, but think it is true.
May Allah accept your fasting and your prayers.
Peace
Happy Ramadeath!
Conspiracy Smasher...
Nice thing about death, the good die same as the bad die - we all die. It is why we fast Ramadan, to worship God - we pray to live to reach the next Ramadan and pray our fasting is accepted.
Conspiracy Smasher, please write more about Islam and spread Islam to your readers, write on my blog to please - I'll call it Azooz's conspirecy theory - and I would not mind if you try to smash it :)
Peace
Salaam alaikum,
Ramadan mubarak/kareem to both Safia and Azooz!
Azooz, I'll check out your post. I've been thinking of writing one on the relevance of the term "Islamophobia", because I've been getting some critical feedback lately on its legitimacy, mostly semantic. One needn't look further than Conspiracy Smasher's word "Ramadeath" to know that violence and death are irrationally associated with Islam by some. But I think there needs to be a balanced explanation of what it means and all.
I'm not a language expert, but Islamophobia's legitimacy as a word is the same as the word Islamofascist in that they are both media words and have no need of legitamcy and will get used by the public whatever we think of them.
I remember watching the neo-cons when they were bombing Lebaon looking hard for a new anti-Islamic media word. A well know American politican said on the BBC that he wanted a word to indicate how "bad" islam was for the "Anglo-Saxon" way of life - so "Islamofascist" was better than what he had in mind I think.
The trend will be towards even nastier words that make gulable people lose all sense of justice - but there are fewer gulable people these days I hope ;)
Peace
islamofascism - is the perfect word to descibe much of the islamic world today - bent on killing as many infidels as possible.
Thank you "Anonymous" your example is exactly what I ment by Islamophobes are spreading Islam:
= = = =
islamofascism - is the perfect word to descibe much of the islamic world today - bent on killing as many infidels as possible.
= = = =
I never want to see people who are right now killing Millions of inocent people in Iraq, Africa and Asia praise Islam - their insults towards Islam are better than any praise from them.
The brain-washing you recived makes you think Islam is violent, while makeing the murder of 1.3 Million Iraqs nice and justifiable - the media is now working for the number to go higher by brain-washing their people to kill more humans for the current religon they hate.
This topic is about Ramadan, non-Muslims know that Muslims regard it as a month of Peace, yet you have had so much brainwashing that you feel it is right to show-off all the hate you have been taugh - this annoys non-Muslims with no hate or a high sence of Justice - see how it works?
You belive Muslims are a "bad or violent" people, that is your opinion - the more you spread it the more people who know Muslims will see thru the brain-washing.
PEACE - give it a try :)
"You belive Muslims are a "bad or violent" people"
I don't believe that at all. It is islam itself which is evil.
Islam, as Muslims love to point out to us, is not really a religion but 'a whole way of life' from the state apparatus down to the individual defecating at home. Islam as a 'whole way of life', as a political, social and economic ideology has proven time and again that it is an utter failure, producing corrupt dictatorial regimes, grinding poverty, illiteracy and intellectual backwardness, misogyny, hatred of the Other, debilitating fatalism, dysfunctional individuals, institutionalized hypocrisy and nihilistic terrorists. That IS Islam.
It needs to be excised from humanity...
Conspiracy Smasher - you skiped the part about the millions being murdered in Iraq and Afghanistan and many other places by Islamophobes.
You say Islam teaches the hate of others? All of us Muslims were "others" in the recent and ancient past, and we are taught by our Islam to care for our "others" since the early days of Islam.
Your other Islamophobia points I will leave so others without the brainwashing can look up in google for themselves.
Like I said, Islam needs no praise from Islamophobes, it is their bloodlust, unustified wars and their unjust brainwashed hate that drives sane people towards Islam. Their are many non-Muslims who are unable to hate, the more Islamophobes push their hate upon them, the closer they lean towards Islam.
>>It needs to be excised
>>from humanity....
See what I mean? Try and look hard.
You Show us the hate you have been taught Conspiracy Smasher, I need it to make my point that much clearer to others. Ignore the millions of Muslims being slaughtered these days and tell me how violent, you have been brainwashed into thinking, Muslims are. Most Muslims and non-Muslims think I am makeing all of this up, nice to have proof.
PEACE
There are three grave problems with the word Islamophobia. First there is the incorrect association with the word fear (from the Greek phobia).
The second problem is that this term confuses hostility toward Islam as a religion or ideology with hostility toward Muslims as individuals. The former is a valid point of view; dislike of Islam because of its teachings and how it is practiced is a completely understandable and intellectually valid position based upon its doctrines and current events. The later, relating to attitudes toward individual Muslims, is not acceptable.
The problem is, of course, that Muslims cannot distinguish between one and the other, they see every denunciation of Islam as a personal attack (Because Islam is perfect, any denunciation of it must be pure evil). Also, the so-called 'good' moderate Muslims do not consider the bad, intolerant Muslims to be part of Islam (ie, they are not 'real' Muslims). It is hard to understand how Muslims should think non-Muslims would make any distinction when both of these groups go to the same mosques, pray together, say the Shehada, accept the same scriptures and both follow the same doctrines, or when a formerly "quiet, moderate" Muslim goes out to kill infidels and is revealed to have been "radicalized" in the mosques, or even when throughout the Islamic world human rights and freedoms of non-Muslims are universally violated (and those of Muslims, too!). The end result is that there is no reason for anyone to believe that any Muslim is moderate or would not kill, oppress or subjugate non-Muslims if given the chance to do so - or would actively, energetically protest those things if they were to happen.
I would like to say a few more words about that last thought in the paragraph above. Yes, there are good Muslims, but they are few and far between. I am taking about Muslims in Islamic societies that will stand up for human rights for all - men, women, non-Muslims, Jews, gays. These are rare, very rare. Even when these people dare speak up, most of them will go to extra-ordinary links to say that any discrimination or persecution in Islamic societies has nothing to do with Islam - even when all evidence is to the contrary and unspeakably vile acts are done by Islamic secular and religious authorities expressly in the name of Islam. They will say it is a cultural issue or they will blame the usual culprits (Colonialism, the Crusades, Imperialism, Britain, Hollywood, Capitalism, Christianity, Israel, the Jews, Bugs Bunny, etc...). The brave people in Islamic countries that are willing to speak up about the problematic nature of Islam are so few and far between that one can count them on the fingers of one hand. Those who have taken this stand are either dead, in prison or have taken refuge in the West.
This is why Muslims in the West cannot be believed when they say they support human rights or believe in freedom of speech and conscience. Why should anyone believe that most Muslims in the West are any different from most Muslims in Islamic societies? The only difference is that they don't have the numbers to inflict their oppressive ideology on all of us - yet.
The third reason why this word is wrong is because it gives Muslims an excuse not to look at the dark soul of Islam. If 'islamophobia' is only caused by the ignorance and or hate of non-Muslims, then it has nothing to do with Islam, its doctrines or the actions of Muslims.
At no time are actions of Muslims, or the doctrines and traditions of Islam, ever considered to be a possible reason for a person's dislike, or loathing, of Islam and Muslims. The idea that what Muslims do or what Islam teaches is the cause of said Islamophonia is unthinkable. To consider the actions of Muslims, or even more so, the doctrines of Islam, as a source of Islamophobia would require that Muslims consider each of these and evaluate these in terms of moral values and basic human rights. It is much easier to blame dislike of Islam on fear, colonialism, orientalism, the Jews, whatever...
Oh yes,Islamophobia is also one of my favorite seach words, along with Banu Al-Musltaliq and Asma Bint Marwan.
Kactuz
Hi John,
Thank You John, but Conspirecy Smasher has already proved my point so your hate is wasted here.
Your fine anti-Islamic post is important however, so please go and publish it on any anti-Islamic site you like so that it can help spread even faster.
I apologize to all my brothers and sisters here, especialy Sindbad (Jazak Allah Khayir), for spoiling a nice "Ramadan Kareem" thread - may God accept your fasting and all your prayers - please pray for me to :)
PEACE
One has to laugh at your parting words of wisdom to another muslim: "peace" Sadly, that is not what we non-muslims usually get when confronted with islam. If you wonder why you are despised, think of this:
Every Friday, in mosques throughout the islamic world, your “religious” leaders preach against western values, express hatred for infidels and long for the time when islam will rule the world.(http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/000501.php
Facts are facts my bloodthirsty little friend - islam is the greatest threat to civilization that has ever existed - which is why it must be opposed on every front...
Hi Conspirecy Smasher,
You can see how the world is makeing fun of the brainwashed Americans like you in uTube. This is A relevent and very funny clip from the Austrailian TV Show Chasers:
Should all U.S. Muslims carry a special ID?
Tattoos on Jewish arms by the Nazis is not funny, but it is OK for American Muslims. Gold Stars for Jews was not nice, but for American Muslims it is vital for "national security" - special IDs, and many other things that not even the Nazis would dream of.
So - go ahead and keep on insulting me and my religon, I need it to spread Islam to the whole world. You think Islam is evil - and most Americans have been brainwashed like no other people on Earth - makes it easy for everyone on Earth to see what you refuse to see - and it spreads Islam nicely.
I love reading your talk, it shows how much tolarnace your religon has taught you.
Let me put it this way - I love Islamophobia for it spreads Islam like nothing in the history of the World - at the current rate you will see millions of Americans accepting Islam soon - all thanks to the brainwashing you can not see but display for the rest of America to see clearly.
I'll keep on this topic as long as you do, and will wait if you need to go get a refill from the hate sites that brainwashed you to love showing off your hate so much. The longer you keep this up the more people who love Justice and Truth turn to Islam - all becuase of you - thanks - you are doing more than even the best Imam at spreading Islam :)
JihadWatch, depsite all their lies and hate, has helped 10,000s of people to Islam, as have many other hate sites - I support them whole heartedly and recomend them to all Islamophobes. My personal favorite is FreeRepublic and Little GreenFootballs - but they prefer members like you to people like me becuase you spread Islam much better than I ever could - I do not mind.
The whole World is being guided towards Islam by the words of people like you - long may you talk.
Peace
"I love Islamophobia for it spreads Islam like nothing in the history of the World"
So let me get this straight; me pointing out the evil of islam attracts people to it?
When I post the words of one of your fellow evil clowns"
"Allah the almighty has called upon us not to ally with the Jews or the Christians, not to like them, not to become their partners, not to support them, and not to sign agreements with them… Allah, deal with the Jews, your enemies and the enemies of Islam. Deal with the Crusaders, and America, and Europe behind them…"
Me pointing this out somehow attracts people to your violent and evil cult? I don't think so friend...
The job of those in civilization who understand the fetid stink coming from the "religion of peace" is to pull the curtain away so that everytone may know the truth.
Whenever I ask a Muslim like you a simple question: “What do you think of the death penalty for adultery, homosexuality, or apostasy as it is mandated by the Koran?” or “What do you think of Mohammad’s assassination of the poets, Asma bin Marwan or Kab bin al-Ashraf in 624 A.D.?” or “Do you think the massacre of the male Quraizya Jews, including 15-year-old boys, and the enslavement of the women and children was morally acceptable by today’s standards?” You will never get a straight answer, if you even get an answer at all.
They cannot say these laws are morally wrong, nor can they say that Mohammad’s actions had a time and place in the 7th century and are unacceptable today. This would deny the Islamic principle that the Koran is the pure, uninterpretable word of God, and that Mohammad is the al insan al kamel, the perfect role model for all men in all times.
Why did Mohammad clearly insist that Jizya be paid under humiliating circumstances?
What about other rules for dhimmis such as: giving up your seat to a muslim who wants it, giving up your residence for 3 days to muslims who want it, wearing a yellow sash in public (like jews in nazi ghettos), not being allowed to build or repair churches, being disarmed while muslims could keep their swords...etc.
No sir, you belong to an evil death-cult and the world has woken up to the danger you and your ilk represent
Hi Conspirecy Smasher,
I do not know Islamic theology or Islamic history - bore me in fact, but I can read the Arabic Quran - it is enough for me.
And you do actually spread Islam like all Islmaophobes - I'll explain if you give me enough credit for my haveing at least a 60 IQ to listen for once - I'm not smart but you might like to at least once listen.
You have an idea of Islam gained from the media, it is a very false idea - the Islamic talking points you mention are easy to look up in Google - anyone searching for the Truth will see those points and many others to - Truth.
Now I await another angry responce from you, and you might bore me with more historical or theological points - as 10,000s of Islamophobes do every day - but those more open-mined than you that bother to check those points will find that Islam is a much nicer religon that the brainwashing they have there whole lives tells them it is. When they check further they might become new Muslims like the millions of others who chose it became - Easy.
You can talk of anything you like, but chose to talk Islam - that is good, free and popular advertising for Islam. Each time you lie, others can see thru it - Islam is only a bad religon in your brain-washed mind - to other humans it is good - Sorry I can not word it correctly - but it works anyway. Islam is an "evil death-cult" only to the brainwashed like you, and those that can resist that brainwashing see it in you - and seek truth for themselves.
Soemone might see me being called a violent person - by you, who can easily ignore the murder of millions and millions of inocents - Hitler's strength was gulable people like you who blindly belived all the propaganda the Nazi's fed them - people see that even if you can not.
>>So let me get this straight;
>>me pointing out the evil of
>>islam attracts people to it?
Yes - your brainwashed Islamophobic rants seem right to you but to the rest of the world they are wrong, funny and ignorant - it makes Islam very atractive and popular.
I check the neo-cons forums daily, half their posts and comments are about Islam - and not everyone likes neo-cons - I love them myself becuase they spread Islam - and many of them convert to Islam
to.
>>No sir, you belong to an evil
>>death-cult and the world has
>>woken up to the danger you
>>and your ilk represent
My "ilk" represent Peace, whatever our religon. I am a Muslim by choice - seeing what the media did to your mind makes me glad I chose Islam and makes me sure many more will chose it to - just because of those like you.
Try to say it .. peace
Peace
"You have an idea of Islam gained from the media"
No, I do not. I have an idea of Islam that is gained from muslims. Every time a muslim opens their mouth to threaten, maim or kill an infidel - and back it up with a saying from the koran - I'm listening.
I don't expect you to respond to actual facts though. I'm sure we all noticed you didn't have the courage to respond to my death penalty questions.
And you still claim people are attacted to your death cult when people like me expose it for the hideous evil that it is?
I once read a quote which said: "We will not judge your actions by your religion, but will judge your religion by your actions”. Your religion has been judged...
Love Thy Brain-Washing?
No way I can fix that for you, and I like seeing it make you spread Islam.
What you think Islam is does not interest me or anyone else, you can find the truth online true Islamic sites without me, I just want you to spread your distorted views to those without your brain-washing.
>>And you still claim people are
>>attacted to your death cult
>>when people like me expose it
>>for the hideous evil that it is?
Yes, exactly, You Got It. That is the ONLY Reason. The uglier your lies the faster Islam spreads, the more evil your views the faster Islam spreads - Million around the World already, and tens of Millions as the American's Media Propaganda built Islamophobia grows.
It is like a big ugly monkey on your head, everyone can see it but you. It has strings in your nose and leads you left and right as it wants - you just think you are useing your own words, thoughts and ideas - but your brain as no more than mush. People who see you show your hate off, do not want that to ever happen to their minds, so they use their brains, check, seek, search, then discover Islam. Even if they do not become Muslim, they let us live in Peace and pity those, like you, that belive the media's lies about Islam.
I hope you do not belive me, that would spoil my Fun. You keep trying to save the world from nasty, evil, vile, bloody old me - the world needs you to save them from me - so keep at this, you might actually convince me that you are sane. bill O'Rilly and Rush Limbaugh would be so proud of you - and I love those two to :)
Thank you for spreading Islam - Bless You, keep at it, you are doing a great job and I really wish I could do even half as good as you are doing.
>>I once read a quote which said:
Ever read anything about Peace? the only way Americans can find Peace these days is in Islam - the rest, like you, are brainwashed to love only war.
Peace
Giggle. You remind me of the communist leaders in North Korea, when, during the last famine, still proclaimed how they were superior to all of the rest of the world - facts be damned.
If you're deluded into believing stories about your evil death cult are excellent tools in attracting new converts, I would assume no amount of fact or logic could dissuade you.
It is not an act of hatred against Muslims to point out the depredations of jihad ideology. I believe in the equality of rights and dignity of all people, which is why I oppose the global jihad. I simply hold up to the light the appalling things muslims say and do about non-muslims and the equally appalling things that are written in the Koran and hadiths that muslims quote as they kill innocent people.
"the only way Americans can find Peace these days is in Islam"
Osama said the same thing didn't he - which is essentially, "convert or die"
Methinks you will be the ones doing the dying...
>>Methinks you will be the ones doing the dying...
From reading Cane and Able in the Quran - MePrays you are right
Jihad is for me to resist being brainwashed into hateing you and others, and Jihad is to not to allow anyone to manipulate me into hateing anyone to the extent of hurting even their feeling - that is Jihad. If I am good at it I please God, if I fail I go to hell - Understand? Jihad is a media word that you use from the propaganda that contaminated your brain, others can look up what Jihad really Is in true sources. Gandhi said that he would die for his cause but not kill for it - that is Jihad.
Some advise I PRAY you reject - Never mention North Korea - in any religious context at all. It will make them see the beautiy of Islam and millions of North Koreans will accept Islam just becuase people like you insult Islam. Americans are the only people on Earth who "forgot" what was done to North Korea's inocent population and gloat of it in movies with great Pride. America "forgot" so that they could do the exact same to Viatnam and many others.
>>I believe in the equality of rights
>>and dignity of all people,
The Fox news crowd say the same funyy enough, Bill O'Rilley always insults Islam but thinks like you that he is "fair and balanced" - so American Natives, Mexicans, Blacks and many "others" get to see the light of Islam becuase of he does not know he is a raceist bigot - his insults are very good for Islam, might start calling him ayatolla O'Rilley :)
>>Osama said...."convert or die"
Osama is more an Islamophobe than any neo-con in America, hates all Shia Muslims and thinks of American converts much the same as you do - they pay taxes so they all deserve to die - not a nice guy and no poster boy for Islam at all.
>>If you're deluded into believing stories about your evil death cult are excellent tools
>>in attracting new converts, I would assume no amount of fact or logic could dissuade you.
I hope I do not dissuads you either, I really want you to continue insulting Islam just as you are - spreading Islam to those who are not as brainswashed as you are. my ex-Wife was a door knocking ex-Jehoves Witness, now you are knocking those doors yourself for Islam with lots more converts than she ever got for the JWs - if I convince you that means no new converts, so it is OK, I might very well be wrong - what do I know anyway?
How else do you think Islam is spread - the media attack is designed to brainwash weak minded people like you into hate and also into pride of that hate - but not all people are that weak - those get to see Islam away from the lies that you belived from the media. You belive Islam to be evil, but that is only from the propaganda - Islam is not evil and any sane person will think it is good as soon as you atart insulting it - works for me :)
Peace
"You belive Islam to be evil, but that is only from the propaganda "
Since you don't seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer, read this slowly:
I simply hold up to the light the appalling things muslims say and do about non-muslims and the equally appalling things that are written in the Koran and hadiths that muslims quote as they kill innocent people.
Muslims all over the Internet talk about maiming, killing, torturing and brtualizing the "kuffar" They justify it by reading something from your "holy book" or an associated Hadith.
There's no propaganda - we're simply exposing the words and crimes of muslims for the world to see.
Is this propoganda or actual islamic blogs preaching evil? You decide:
http://caravanofmartyrs.wordpress.com/
http://inshallahshaheed.hadithuna.com/
1) Islam is the True Religon.
You think that it is false, the more you talk the more people get the truth - so talk and spread the word :)
>>There's no propaganda
You know that is not true, and you expose your brainwashing with great pride here. The Propaganda is how Islam spreads - you belive the propaganda to be true - and those smarter than you refuse to be brainwashed - and find Islam.
The hate you are so proud of showing off impressess only other Islamophobes - those without your phobia think Islam is a great religion just becuase you insult it - so keep at it, and do not mind me - I might be as dumb as you think I am.
Peace
Peace
"1) Islam is the True Religon."
How do you know?
"How do you know?"
That is hard for me to preove in English, frustrating to, but in Arabic the Quran itself is all the proof I need. I have had do doubts since I learned Arabic at age 12.
It is why no one in history has ever been able to translate it into any other language - it is just too (???????!) beyond all art, way beyond poerty - etc etc - no way to describe it better. As a normal book it is the best book ever written - a page turner that lasts for life.
I could go on, and often do - but learning Arabic is all the proof you will ever need - in English you will find the same exact words - they just lack the direct kick to the soul the Arabic gives one.
"How do you know?"
Going by all the above - the Quran says Islam is the true religon that pleases God - and it says it so very elequently that it makes the words of anyone who denies it look like ilogical children however good they word their arguments. The Quran itself says that even if all the best writers united to write a single page like it they would fail - I know they will, and they have for over 1400 years - so untill someone words it better the Quran is right, Islam is the true religion.
I am sorry I can not explain it better, but it is no false claim from the wording alone - no one has been able deny it or to equal it - literaly.
Peace
So you "know" because "the Quran says Islam is the true religon that pleases God"
Can't say that you've made a very compelling argument. Every adherant to every religion thinks that theirs is "the one true way"
True, and I admit that the theology of any religon bores me to. I have total faith that the Quran is the best writen book on Earth today - that is proven beyond all doubt, more than that I leave to others.
I answered the question from my perspective, I know it is imposible to explain or accept in English - but I just wanted to answer the question on how I "know" that Islam is the true religon - most Muslims do not know Arabic, and they have no need to learn it either - they know the theology better than me to.
Arab Christians and atheists say that the Quran is "magic" - no one has ever written anything like it in 14 centuries.
I can not make a compelling argument in English for anything theological really - but in Arabic all I have to do is quote a few verses of the Quran and the argument is over - it's why %90 of all Arabs are Muslim.
Peace
"%90 of all Arabs are Muslim"
%99 of all the Irish are Christian. It means nothing. People are born into a religion (or convert) and inducted into a belief system. The people in that system are absolutely convinced that the religion they were born into (or chose) is the One True Way.
Again, it means nothing to the rest of us who seek a rational explanation.
It is difficult to credit any one religion as being True or any one god as being True when there have been so many throughout human history.
None appears to have any greater claim to being more credible or reliable than any other. Why Christianity and not Judaism? Why Islam and not Hinduism? Why monotheism and not polytheism? Every position has had its defenders, all as ardent as those in other traditions. They can't all be right, but they can all be wrong.
When you study any religion, Islam included, you look at it's basic ideas, ethics, ideals morals, laws etc etc - that is better than what I am saying about language and I do not belittle it in any way. Fact is I envy it, and it is to be praised.
I hope you consider learning some basic Arabic then read the Arabic Quran, it will impress you like no other book ever written can, purely as a book - but for faith reading the English Quran is a good start and enough for most.
I have been reading the koran. It scares the hell out of me:
"O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73)
"Murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123)
"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:40)
"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)
"How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11)
"strike off the heads of the disbelievers" (Koran 47:4)
>>It scares the hell out of me:
Read it well, instead of trusting the brainwashing media to read it for you. It puts the Fear of God in me and might do that for you if you give it a chance - however, back to the subject.
Each of those verses of the Quran you mentioned takes the Jewel of the Nile (r.i.p) an hour to explain in Arabic here:
http://www.elsharawy.com/
You see those verses one way, someone without the brainwashing will see them another way when they read the whole Quran in English themselves - so you are, in fact, guideing people to Islam by posting them anywhere.
You can find the true meaning, and proper context of those verses on hundreds of proper sites about the Quran, try Google
The verses are worded are for pacifist who hate to fight but have been forced into it, not for blood thirsty war mongers, the Quran talks of hate mongers to - they spread "Fitnah" and are judged as worst than murderers by God for they kill more by their lies, sophistery and deceit.
I do not trust people who lie about Chrstians and Jews - and advise you to start useing your own brain and read the Quran yourself instead of trusting the propaganda.
On a ligher note - Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week - October 22-26 will be held in 150+ of America's largest institutes of higher learning - David Horowitz, one of my favorite Islamophobe, is gathering hundreds of the best known Islmaophobes to teach America's youth how to gain even more Hate - it will also spread Islam more than anything any Muslim organization can do. David Horowitz has a deep hate of Islam and Muslims that he is not ashamed of exposeing on his site and others - the more he exposes the hate, the more he spreads Islam - hate is wrong, just plain wrong - so those that can not hate will see right thru him and learn how good Islam is just becuase he insults it. I hope it becomes and anuall avent :)
Peace
I don't understand. When you say people are attracted to your religion when they read this: "Murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123)
What do you think attracts them? The opportunity to kill someone?
You have to look up the meaning yourself - otherwise you are just trying to justify and spread the hate. Look up Tafsir, Tafseer - they are books that have the meaning of the verses. It is what smart people (seakers) will do when you show them those or any other verses - try it yourself.
The meanings of the verses are not secret, they are in many books and sites. They have been talked about for centuries - all good, in all reviews.
Here is the Arabic MP3 from the old Jewel's site that I'll listen to when I have time:
http://www.nessma.org/media/mp3/sharaw_009_19.mp3
The Sowra you chose is the 9th - this is the only one of the 114 that Muslims do NOT read God's two names of mercy before reading - it is in tones of anger at those that were too lazy or cowerdly to defend their homes and famalies, and other people.
That verse is about a certain story in the early days of Islam, it was of a long ended war - and my people were on the other side of Islam back then.
The MP3 is over 90 minutes, I have not listened to it for a long time and thank you for reminding me of it - the 9th Image (Sowra) is not a violent one, it is about doing what is right at the right time - not to go murder people.
The harsh verses of the Quran do not scare children they scare Adults - part of it's high art of writeing. Children see them as God encoraging those who defend Children - in Jihad the life of the enamy's children is more important than the life of your soldiers or generals.
I am not a scholar of the Quran, nor an Imam - I just know enough Arabic to read the Quran myself - it is a book of Peace, really - depite everything the propaganda tells you - read it yourself and see.
Peace
I don't speak arabic - neither do the majority of muslims. What I have read is not peaceful - it is full of violence and hatred towards folks who aren't muslim. How do you reconcile what it says with what you believe?
As an example, do you think apostates should be executed?
The Quran is a book of Peace, as those that bother to read it themselves find out. The hate of others is something we pray to God five times a day to remove from our hearts - with the full knowledge that God will punish us if we hurt anyone with our hate. There are two images of Islam, the image presented by the Islamophbic propaganda - and the true image. I know Islam to be very beutiful and full of love and tolarance. I love Islamophobes for they push people, who could not otherwise be bothered, to look at Islam or read the Quran themselves.
>>do you think apostates should be executed?
I hope apostates do not execte me as certainly as I do not want them executed. I leave such things to God the Just - but glad to see it used as fuel for the propaganda machine. Most apostates are from one country (one sect) - that has greatly de-emphasized the Arabic Quran the last few decades. The anti-Islamic media has promoted them greatly, they chose 9-11 to launch some ex-Muslim clubs, this has greatly emphasized the importance of the Quran to Muslim parents - another benifical side-affect of the Islamophobic media.
If you want proof of how Islamophobia spreads Islam, notice how many Republican and neo-con sites mention Islam related subjects - then notice how the number of islamic subjects will increase till December - the more mention the more Americans become Muslim. The combined advertising of GM, MicroSoft, AT&T McDonalds - and the other top 100 brands in the world is dwarfed by the advertising Islam is getting for free. I have no idea what stupidity the Bush admin plans for the next few months to the Muslim world, but I have no doubt that it to will increase the number of new Muslims.
The Quran taught me to love Islamophobes - and you think it a hate filled book of a violent religon?
Peace
Let me ask you again, based on your understanding of your holy book, should people who leave islam be executed?
Short: I am not a judge or Imam - so I am not permited to have an opinion (Fatwa) on this. I do not know, Thank God.
Back to the subject - the question you are asking about apostates is important to me, and I am very glad to see the Pope himself has steped in with his opinion - as have many of the big name American and European Christian figures to - all I know is that Islam does not have anything even close to the inquestions - and nice to see good non-Muslim people talk of Islam so much especialy on this issue.
I am not avoideing answering. This is a matter of Fear of God - not fear of what you or other non-Muslims might say or think. I do not know, that is the honest truth. You can ask Imams on Islamic sites, but that would not spread Islam as much ;)
Peace
But this is an islamic site and I'm asking you what you think the koran says. All five major schools of Islamic jurisprudence agree that a sane male apostate must be executed.
What do YOU think?
The "five major schools of Islamic jurisprudence" - do not say "Off With Her (or his) Head" - there are rules, procedures, conditions, and so many loop holes that even a junior legal mind can get you off. Even if you REALLY want your head choped off you could not -
unless "someone" has killed all the judges, murdered all the imams and destroyed a whole country's legal system and infrastructer - then you get colonist selected and installed "Muslims" running the show and killing anyone for even small reasons - makes for nice TV "horror" news. The blood of those executed by "Muslim" judges in such places falls on the Western Islamophobes who installed them - makes me upset, but spreads Islam in the long run to.
What do I Think?
I am happy to respond "I Do Not Know" - and will say it again if you like. I have learned a lot from reading the Arabic Quran but one of them is to not pretend to know what I do not know. Hoever, execution would be the least of my worries if I left Islam , for I know Who wrote the Quran.
Peace
"The blood of those executed by "Muslim" judges in such places falls on the Western Islamophobes who installed them"
Fascinating. Whatever the crime or evil comitted by a muslim, it is always someone elses fault. I can see why your religion is so attractive - whatever evil an adherent comits on behalf of the religion is the fault of the victim/islamophobes/ or other people in the west.
Thank you - this has been a very interesting discussion.
You are welcome, and keep on listening to the Islamophobes - you never know.
Peace :)
Let me try and understand - muslim judges who execute apostates because they believe they are following your gods law have been installed by kuffar?
"my God" created the Universe, and Adam, Eve - and ordered Muslims to respect whatever God you worship to.
I was talking about the legal systems installed by the murder loveing colonists, like in Iraq, Afganistan and many other places.
It was a small point in a very long subject, you can learn more about it in none Colonist history books - South Americans write about it often - they had colonist installed legal systems to.
Your propaganda installed hate of Islam is just another excuse to help your brainwashers to invade, steal and kill "others" - many "other" people of many religons have had the same thing done - the colonist way.
kuffar - another Islam spreading word misused by Islamophobes who hate justice, and the without the anti-Islam brainwashing it is easy for people who love justice to look it up in the Quran and find the truth about it - many new American Muslims were "kuffar" lawyers :)
Peace
So you are saying that Afghanistan was better when the taliban were running it?
No, I am saying Afghanistan was better when the Afghans were running it. Not everyone likes puppet governments.
An example of how propaganda makes killing tens of thousands of Afghan school children
"ignorable", nice and easy:
Taliban, means "Students"
Madrasa, means "School"
English news headlines have brave soldeirs bragging about killing Students (Taliban) in Schools (Madrasa)- and the rest of the world without the English brainwashing reads it properly as : we are killing school students, and bragging about it. Fly boys count the number of Madrasa (Schools) they bomb and send rockets into to - same media propaganda cheering them on.
I see the brainwashing happening, and the brainwashed showing it off with great Pride to anyone willing to listen to them - makes for very funny comedy, if it were not for the millions being murdered. It does spread Islam - no other reason, some just see thru the lies and find the Truth - simple.
Peace
My apologies - I thought I was dealing with a rational, educated person, not someonewho believed nonsensical conspiracy theories.
Have a lovely life!
Peace be upon everyone,
I'm not allowing any more comments in this thread, because it is clearly not leading to reconciliation but further antagonism. And that is not the purpose of the blog.
On the Taliban and present day Afghanistan, it needs to be said that both the Taliban and the US-backed Afghan warlords have committed war crimes and placed abusive laws against women. So the argument of which criminal is better is not really constructive.
On apostasy, this is a very tied-down topic, but I go with the understanding of those scholars that an individual is free to follow his or her own way, provided apostasy is not coupled with treason. Treason as we know is punishable by death in many countries. So I don't think the Afghan man who converted to Christianity should be put to death but he should be given freedom to practise his religion. As Craig Murray said: "You can't make eternity last longer by killing someone quicker." Since apostasy is not a sin against humanity, it is not up to us to decide the fate of the individual. That's my opinion. Moreover, many of the practices of people who issue these decrees are themselves against the spirit of Islam. God knows best.
Post a Comment